Paul, I really appreciate your insights and commentary on Leo's address. I share similar impressions upon hearing and reading his initial comments. Thanks for what you do, here!
This was extremely helpful for me today, particularly the part at the end about the fearful nature embedded in today’s American Catholic culture. I attempted going to Mass last night, here in Michigan. The homily was, in addition to being inaccurate in parts, rooted in control and fear. Afterward I caught myself wondering what you or Dominic would say about it, and reading some of Pope Leo’s recent words has been reassuring.
Jacob, I do think people in the Extraordinary Form community need to understand, though, that it does not connect with everyone and that a reverently created Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite Mass is beautiful and good and just as spiritually nourishing as the Extraordinary Form is. Like I’ve told people I feel disconnected from the Mass when I have attended the Extraordinary Form and people have pooh poohed that with a sort of smugness and I found that very disconcerting.
Also, calling the Ordinary Form the “Novus Ordo”, at least for some people, myself included, is extremely disrespectful, and calling the Extraordinary Form the Traditional Latin Mass is also extremely frustrating to me too, because Vatican II and every edition of the Roman Missal is part of the Tradition of the Church, and the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite can be and is celebrated in Latin.
I object to the term “Traditionalist” or “Trad” for similar reasons, and avoid using those terms.
I don’t know if there are neutral terms that can be used in place of these or not. I hope there are.
Yes, this is a very emotional topic for me, in part because my experience with the Extraordinary Form and people who attend the Extraordinary Form has been about 75% negative, although I do have a few close friends who attend it who accept Vatican II and the full Magisterium and are respectful of and obedient to the Holy Father.
And my perspective on the liturgy is I am very much a “reform of the reform” guy whose thought has been influenced heavily by Cardinal Francis George, Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI, Romano Guardini, and especially Bishop Robert Barron, so the Ressourcement school of theology, if that helps you understand where I’m coming from.
I’m with you on Ad Orientem, Gregorian Chant, incense, and I do think that some of the principal parts of the Mass should still be done in Latin, and I think receiving the Eucharist on the tongue and kneeling would restore some reverence that I think was lost in the poor implementation of Sacronsanctam concilium.
So if we reformed the Ordinary Form along the lines of what Pope Benedict XVI called for in The Spirit of the Liturgy, that is what I would love to see, and that is actually how the private Ordinary Form Mass that was celebrated immediately before I professed my private vow of celibacy was celebrated.
But, I’m just a privately vowed celibate Catholic layman, and this is just my private, personal opinion. I defer what constitutes fitting worship to the Magisterium and the Holy Father, and if they decide differently than me, I’ll defer to their judgment.
Happy to continue the conversation via direct messages if you like, in the interest of mutual understanding.
This is why I don’t usually read these kinds of posts: the division in opinions and judgments and proclamations of knowing more that the opposite side is of no value to the Holy Catholic Church. Do what you do and don’t chastise the others for what they do. You or your Mass are no better than the other. Jesus Christ is made into the body, blood, soul and divinity at all Masses. You are not holier, or more pious.
When I read the letter accompanying Traditiones custodes, outlining why Pope Francis issued it, I have definitely been around the Tridentine Mass community, and what he identifies as problems in that community and the neo-Lefebvrists in the SSPX and other places having hijacked Summorum pontificum to spread their heresy, which is the flip side of the Spirit of Vatican II crowd of the 1970s-1990s, is a big reason why I have avoided the Tridentine Mass, that and I do think the reforms in Sacronsanctam concilium are good when they are properly done the way that Pope Benedict XVI describes in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy, which he wrote back when he was Cardinal Ratzinger.
Of course, Benedict XVI is my favorite of the popes in my lifetime so far (although I love them all and am grateful for them all),so I might be a bit biased in that regard.
Anyway, my one criticism of Traditiones custodes is, at least in some places where it has been implemented, it has not distinguished between the neo-Lebvrist heretics it is (rightly) aimed at and people like Jacob who accept Vatican II and are docile to the Magisterium who ended up caught in the crossfire (and I have friends like him offline who are in the same boat), and I am hopeful that Pope Leo will approach this with more pastoral sensitivity as well.
Beautiful! Thanks so much for sharing, brother!
Very hopeful.
I was hoping you would be sharing your initial thoughts on Pope Leo XIV. Thank you, Paul!
Paul, I really appreciate your insights and commentary on Leo's address. I share similar impressions upon hearing and reading his initial comments. Thanks for what you do, here!
Thank you for that precious information!
I am so relieved
This was extremely helpful for me today, particularly the part at the end about the fearful nature embedded in today’s American Catholic culture. I attempted going to Mass last night, here in Michigan. The homily was, in addition to being inaccurate in parts, rooted in control and fear. Afterward I caught myself wondering what you or Dominic would say about it, and reading some of Pope Leo’s recent words has been reassuring.
Jacob, I do think people in the Extraordinary Form community need to understand, though, that it does not connect with everyone and that a reverently created Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite Mass is beautiful and good and just as spiritually nourishing as the Extraordinary Form is. Like I’ve told people I feel disconnected from the Mass when I have attended the Extraordinary Form and people have pooh poohed that with a sort of smugness and I found that very disconcerting.
Also, calling the Ordinary Form the “Novus Ordo”, at least for some people, myself included, is extremely disrespectful, and calling the Extraordinary Form the Traditional Latin Mass is also extremely frustrating to me too, because Vatican II and every edition of the Roman Missal is part of the Tradition of the Church, and the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite can be and is celebrated in Latin.
I object to the term “Traditionalist” or “Trad” for similar reasons, and avoid using those terms.
I don’t know if there are neutral terms that can be used in place of these or not. I hope there are.
Thank you for your thoughtful response, Jacob.
Yes, this is a very emotional topic for me, in part because my experience with the Extraordinary Form and people who attend the Extraordinary Form has been about 75% negative, although I do have a few close friends who attend it who accept Vatican II and the full Magisterium and are respectful of and obedient to the Holy Father.
And my perspective on the liturgy is I am very much a “reform of the reform” guy whose thought has been influenced heavily by Cardinal Francis George, Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI, Romano Guardini, and especially Bishop Robert Barron, so the Ressourcement school of theology, if that helps you understand where I’m coming from.
I’m with you on Ad Orientem, Gregorian Chant, incense, and I do think that some of the principal parts of the Mass should still be done in Latin, and I think receiving the Eucharist on the tongue and kneeling would restore some reverence that I think was lost in the poor implementation of Sacronsanctam concilium.
So if we reformed the Ordinary Form along the lines of what Pope Benedict XVI called for in The Spirit of the Liturgy, that is what I would love to see, and that is actually how the private Ordinary Form Mass that was celebrated immediately before I professed my private vow of celibacy was celebrated.
But, I’m just a privately vowed celibate Catholic layman, and this is just my private, personal opinion. I defer what constitutes fitting worship to the Magisterium and the Holy Father, and if they decide differently than me, I’ll defer to their judgment.
Happy to continue the conversation via direct messages if you like, in the interest of mutual understanding.
This is why I don’t usually read these kinds of posts: the division in opinions and judgments and proclamations of knowing more that the opposite side is of no value to the Holy Catholic Church. Do what you do and don’t chastise the others for what they do. You or your Mass are no better than the other. Jesus Christ is made into the body, blood, soul and divinity at all Masses. You are not holier, or more pious.
This is very fair, I think, Jacob.
When I read the letter accompanying Traditiones custodes, outlining why Pope Francis issued it, I have definitely been around the Tridentine Mass community, and what he identifies as problems in that community and the neo-Lefebvrists in the SSPX and other places having hijacked Summorum pontificum to spread their heresy, which is the flip side of the Spirit of Vatican II crowd of the 1970s-1990s, is a big reason why I have avoided the Tridentine Mass, that and I do think the reforms in Sacronsanctam concilium are good when they are properly done the way that Pope Benedict XVI describes in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy, which he wrote back when he was Cardinal Ratzinger.
Of course, Benedict XVI is my favorite of the popes in my lifetime so far (although I love them all and am grateful for them all),so I might be a bit biased in that regard.
Anyway, my one criticism of Traditiones custodes is, at least in some places where it has been implemented, it has not distinguished between the neo-Lebvrist heretics it is (rightly) aimed at and people like Jacob who accept Vatican II and are docile to the Magisterium who ended up caught in the crossfire (and I have friends like him offline who are in the same boat), and I am hopeful that Pope Leo will approach this with more pastoral sensitivity as well.